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this week, conservative lawmakers issue a warning to fellow republicans on obama care. if you fund it, you're for it. but should the party risk a government shutdown? plus, chris christie take on rand paul over national security. as another gop rift is revealed. and wikileaker bradley manning gets convicted. and nsa leaker edward snowden gets asylum. both are being celebrated in some circles, but are they really heroes? welcome to "the journal editorial report." well, if you fund it, you're for it. that's the message this week
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from a group ofseative lawmakers to fellow republicans as they continue their push to make defunding obama care part of a deal to keep the government running past september. the plan, which could result in a government shutdown, is being met with resistance by some in the gop, with critics calling it political suicide. florida senator rubio had this message for the skeptical senators. >> if we pass this, you did not do everything you could. you paid for this. you doubled down on it. in ways that will have harm to our country. this is our last best chance. >> joining the panel this week, "wall street journal" columnist and deputy editor dan he ddinger. assistant editor james freeman. and washington columnist kim strasle. so, dan, this rubio strategy, what do you think of it? >> i think it's probably -- other than the fund-raising possibilities for all the principals involved, that aside,
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i think as a strategy, the way we're describing it now, or we will describe it, it will have a lot of detail in it. and the problem is, this is about the budget, okay. >> right, funding the whole government. >> which is invariably a complex subject. if they pursue this strategy about funding obama care, yeah, i think they're going to get some support for it. they're going to get the support of about 43% of the country. the rest of the country watches this. it will roll forward towards the shutdown and then all, i'm convinced, all of the media coverage will immediately start. every tv station out there talking about the effects of a government shutdown. and i think this tsunami of negative coverage is simply going to wash the republicans out to sea one more time. people are not going to be able to focus on the complex details of this strategy. >> it will be kind of like the budget and funding the government and not about obama care. james, what do you think?
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>> well, i think it's going to be about obama care. this is why it's different in some ways from some earlier fights. where republicans are not trying to reform all of government at the deadline to do the annual spending bill. they're just saying specifically not obama care. very unpopular law. >> and do you think -- okay, no question, but do you think that they can basically make that case and make it about that, when obama's going to be saying the opposite? he's going to be saying, republicans want to shut down the government in order to deny health care to poor people. that will be the debate. >> but that's -- >> i'm not saying he's right, but that's what he'll say. >> you can clearly state this is not about poor people, they already get medicaid. obama care is about hooking the rest of us -- >> you're already explaining, sir. >> i don't see a lot of downside here. because if either they force some reform, maybe even if it's too much to hope that they get the president to kill obama care, maybe they enforce some
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delays in the implementation of it. on the other hand, what do you have? you have -- the government shuts down for a few days. maybe some epa employees will be considered nonessential and people will be able to drill for more oil. i mean, i don't really see what the downside is. >> kim, can the republicans really hold out in a shutdown showdown? if, for example, the national parks start getting shut down, the air traffic controllers don't show up for work. i've been through this rodeo before. i don't think i've seen the republicans maintain a united front here. which is what you have to do to succeed. >> look, one of the reasons this has been pushed off till now is because republicans lost this battle a couple of times and they decided to wait till this fall to try to tackle something like this. again, the problem here, they cannot delineate an end game. okay, even if the house were to pass a bill defunding obama care, even if it got a senate
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vote over the opposition of majority leader reid, even if it made it to the president's desk, he will veto it. at which point, you need 22 senate democrats to overcome that veto. it's never going to happen. there's no more noble goal than defunding obama care but you have to do it in a way you cab win. which is why some republicans advocating pushing this off. for instance, in the debt ceiling debate, something future, to extract some concessions. or simply continue to let this bill crack up and then see what you can get. >> i've talked to some of the senators and other activists who are behind this. they basically say, look, republicans have to be shown to be fighting for something. because if they don't, if they don't really at least make the effort here, then it's going to demoralize the base. it's actually going to hurt the republican party going in 2014. >> i'm sympathetic. i understand their desire to fight back.
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there should be more of that. i like to propose the possibility they're not considering, which is that obama care is in bigger trouble than they thing structurally. >> this isn't the last chance. >> i don't think it's -- i think we could be looking at an historic self-collapse of the liberal idea. this is a big entitlement. they've pushed it forward. if this thing implodes on its own, i think that the significance of that will truly be historic. if your opposition is destroying itself, i think your job is to stand back and let it. >> you think the danger -- kim, okay, to you, the danger with that is the subsidies once they kick in will create a constituency for the bill. more support. and then you'll never be able to repeal it. that's the alternative argument. >> that is true, and that is the alternative argument. it's the fear. can i just point out, too, i think you make a bigger mistake. how much more is the republican base going to be demoralized if these people claim that they can
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accomplish this when, in fact, they can't, and it all collapses and fails and republicans are blamed for it. >> couple things. 2011 debt ceiling fight, the republicans got the sequester out of it. president obama's popularity was dented among independents. that worked out okay for them. there is a downside, you turn his failure into your failure and you become responsible. >> right. >> but there's also the problem -- i agree it's going to fail but it may not fail as quickly next year as some people will enjoy getting new subsidies. >> i agree with so much of what you said but, boy, it's a high-risk political strategy. when we come back, two potential 2016 competitors face off, with chris christie taking on rand paul over national security. have libertarians forgotten the lessons of september 11th? ♪ play close. good and close.
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headlines for comments he made last week at a forum in colorado where he called out libertarians like potential 2016 rival rand paul over what he says is a dangerous drift away from national security. >> this strain of libertarianism that's going through both parties right now and making big headlines i think is a very dangerous thought. and as the governor now of a state that lost the second most people on 9/11 behind the state of new york, and still seeing those families, john, i'd love all these esoteric debates people are getting in. >> senator rand paul for example? >> listen, he's one. these esoteric debates. i want them to come to new jersey and sit across from the widows and the orphans and have that conversation. >> we're back with dan hetinger, dorothy robitins join us.
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esoteric debates, that's our specialty. >> right to the gut. right to the gut. i want to tell you, you see in this performance here the reason christie is so popular. he knows what resonates. this is not to suggest at all that he doesn't actually deeply believe what he is saying. >> you think his critique is accurate? >> absolutely. certainly i do. and yet, if you compare him with rand paul, that is the exact description that one would apply. he knows very well that these are fanciful or fancy prescriptions. he knows when you come right down to it, the united states of america's population is not going to buy into these stories that he spins out about the violation of a constitution. christie is there to tell you buildings were burning in new york. people were jumping out of windows. we have to protect ourselves. >> and
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growing opposition to the surveillance the nsa. rand paul is tapping some public sentiment. not just on the left. we had a vote in congress. a republican congress from michigan sponsoring an amendment that almost gutted the nsa collection of meta data. it failed 217-205. very close. so is dorothy right about the politics? >> i really would like to think dorothy's right about this and i'd like to think chris christie is right. i worry a little bit that 9/11, all of that, is becoming a new york/new jersey/connecticut thing. those of us who experienced it that day. and it is essentially receding out perhaps in parts of the country and becoming something of a distraction. because the united states has been lucky, unlike capitals in europe, not to experience another terrorist event. i think unfortunately there may be a reservoir of political support that could get behind what rand paul is saying. >> matt, how serious a rift is this within the republican
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party? >> well, i mean, it's a clear risk. we can say this is really a win-win for rand paul and chris christie. they get to define themselves as spokesman for these two sides of the party. you know, why is the governor of new jersey engaging with the junior senator from kentucky? it's all about 2016. think christie is smart to come out. i think there's more of a reservoir of feeling that america is a global power, we do face security threats. next time something like boston happens again, that will immediately undercut the isolationist and dangerous push by people like rand paul to gut what we're doing in national security. >> just to say this, i hope that dan is not right. we've had a long history of isolationists like rand paul. >> you think he's an isolationist? >> surely. the country has never fully -- there's always been a fringe element, a very loud one. now of course there's this big
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boom from right wing media commentary which is supporting rand paul in all of this. >> there's a lot of people in the republican party at the grassroots who think, look the iraq war and the afghanistan war were not good for the country. did not help the republican party. hurt in 2006 and 2008. they want to go back to domestic issues because they think if you're for active government overseas, that means bigger government at home. i disagree with that. i think reagan showed you could be for free markets at home and smaller government and mask coll muscular foreign governments. >> i think what senator paul is pushing is a loser nationally, but it could divide the republican party, i believe, where some of these ideas are getting resonance to the point
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where it could split them in two pieces. >> rand paul is a man who can say, wisely, that leakers like snowden are equivalent to that of martin luther king, libertarian, jailed, and is snowden equal to martin luther king? the idea that this could come trippingly from the tongue is going to resonate with the sanest portions of our population. >> when we come back, nsa leaker edward snowden gets asylum in russia while wiki leader bradley manning faces possible life in prison. both are being hailed as heroes in some circles, but are they? [ beeping ] ♪ [ male announcer ] we don't just certify our pre-owned vehicles. we inspect, analyze and recondition each one, until it's nothing short of a genuine certified pre-owned... mercedes-benz for the next new owner. ♪ hurry in to your authorized mercedes-benz dealer
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nsa leaker edward snowden left moscow's airport thursday after the russian government
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granted him temporary asylum. just days after army private bradley manning was convicted on 19 charges including espionage for passing classified information to wikileaks, something that could land him in jail for the rest of his life. both men are being hailed by some on the left and the right as heroes. whistleblowers who deserve not prison sentences but america's thanks. before we get to that, what do you make of the russian decision to grant snowden asylum, despite entreaties by president obama and threats of consequences from john kerry? >> it's a real slap to the face but it's also very much par for the course for the way russians have behaved throughout the obama years. as president obama has tried to get along with vladimir putin, launching this reset, russia does not -- this is a hostile act against the u.s. and should be treated as such. >> what does this say about u.s. influence not just with russia but more broadly? >> president obama's very famous -- he said he restored
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america's standing in the world. these incidents speak for themselves. he could not press the president in china to detain someone who is indicted on three very serious counts. he could not influence russia to do what most countries would do, which is hand someone over, back to the u.s. who faces such serious charges. >> dorothy, moving on to bradley manning, do you think the verdict -- he was not convicted of aiding and abetting the enemy but he was convicted on other counts, fair verdict? >> not a fair verdict but i didn't expect a fair verdict -- >> you would have thrown the book at him? >> of course, it was aiding the enemy. the fact that all this is transferred by our sympathetic media which went whole hog creating bradley manning into a kind of hero. you know the word whistleblower has been forever tainted by these two dunces. and you will never hear them in the same way again. the idea of listening to endless -- >> but what damage did manning
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really do? what would you point to, the real harm to national security? >> to national security, he unloaded documents without the slightest regard for distinction. simply deleted the names. >> he laid it out there and they had names, for example, of people who cooperated with us in afghanistan and iraq. they could have become targets. may have been targets of terrorists. >> there's a deeper assault though. it's the assault on the values that the nation has. if you can now feel betrayed on national security. if you can give new meaning to the term of just an honest citizen doing his work, this is a terrible moral confusion. here's somebody who clearly and with intent to malign the united states, there can be no question about that, threw this out and then managed to pretend this is
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all about the constitution and having that, picked up and believed and thrown back, this is really serious damage. >> dan, did the administration have any choice but to prosecute him? of course they charged snowden. >> i don't think they had any choice. on prosecuting. the one thing they do have a choice is on telling the american people more about the systems that they're using. you know, general keith alexander, the head of the national security agency, said in testimony before congress they had prevented dozens of terrorist plots and he was going to work on it and bring some to the public's attention. they have not done that. there's always the question of methods and means. if we do that, the terrorists will find things out. i think they have to release more information about foiled plots to gain public support for these very necessary programs because otherwise it remains a destruction and opponents are exploiting that. >> this debate is getting away
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from the administration and they're doing a really inept job of defending what they say are essential programs. >> what's behind it? >> i think president obama might secretly agree with -- even though he's used these powers throughout the last four years to keep this country safe, he's not willing to go out there and say, we need to do this. i mean, it's very telling with that vote last week on amash's amendment to defund the nsa, that the white house didn't say anything till the night before, after bedtime for us, when the press secretary of the white house in a statement said, please don't vote to defund nsa because we need this. president obama hasn't said anything about this. >> the case has really been a debacle from top to bottom and it's jeopardizing these surveillance programs, these anti-terror programs. we need more from the president of the united states on this and other things. we have to take one more break. when we come back, it's misses of the week. is the better choi,
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he's agreed to give it up. that's today? [ male announcer ] we'll be with him all day as he goes back to taking tylenol. i was okay, but after lunch my knee started to hurt again. and now i've got to take more pills. ♪ yup. another pill stop. can i get my aleve back yet? ♪ for my pain, i want my aleve. ♪ [ male announcer ] look for the easy-open red arthritis cap.
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time now for hits and misses of the week. dorothy. >> all of the sympathizers wringing wring ing their hands over the troubles of miss anthony weiner who came to the cameras once it was learned her husband was again engaged in his interesting practices on the internet. to tell how good he was, how much she loved him. sympathy for her is wildly misplaced. because this is the word not of a wildly un -- badly treated wife but that of a hard-lime political ambitious woman and you have to admit this is a couple well matched. >> all right, dorothy. matt? >> palestinians this week restarted the peace talks after three years of sitting aside. everyone thinks, peace talks, why not, it's a good idea. i think it's a clear miss.
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we've gone to mahmoud abbas, the head of the palestinian authority, a dictator, five years past the end of his last democratic mandate. the plo has turned this down. they do not want peace. have we not learned anything over the last 65 years about trying to negotiate peace with dictators who are not willing to engage? >> all right. kim. >> a miss for white house press secretary jay carney for dismissing irs targeting as nothing more than a phony scandal. inevitable because it's in keeping with this white house. it continues to grow intrusive government. when that government fails or turns its terrifying powers on citizens, this white house's response is to blame it on the other side and move on. when the caretakers of government are as irresponsible as government itself, we've got a problem. >> all right, kim, thank you. thank you, all. and, remember, if you have your own hit or miss, please send it to us at jer
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that's it for this week's show. thanks to my panel and especially to all of you for watching. hope to see you here next week. on fox news watch -- >> i've run my last campaign so i don't need to spin -- >> the president claiming no spin in his message about the economy. on the road again, trying to convince american he's the man with the plan and republicans are out to stop him. are the media buying that spin? >> whether it's about the attacks in benghazi and the talking points, attempts to turn this into a scandal have failed. >> mr. obama and his white house guys ramp up their rhetoric about phony scandals. getting too much attention. are the benghazi attacks and irs spying on americans phony? how did the med

The Journal Editorial Report
FOX News August 3, 2013 11:00am-11:31am PDT

News/Business. Paul Gigot discusses news, politics, society and finance. New. (CC) (Stereo)

TOPIC FREQUENCY Us 6, Chris Christie 5, Obama 5, America 4, Snowden 4, Russia 4, Kim 4, Nsa 3, U.s. 3, Christie 3, Leaker Edward Snowden 3, Bradley Manning 3, New York 3, Dorothy 2, Martin Luther King 2, Paul 2, Dan 2, Rubio 2, Benghazi 2, United States 2
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